chances of bad news at 20 week scan mumsnetamir and baba relationship in america

I could hardly breathe. All women are offered a dating scan, and an 18- 20 week fetal anomaly ultrasound scan, in line with NICE and UK National Screening Committee recommendations. Within it are a number of recommendations for the communication of findings from ultrasounds. Sometimes doctors will wait to give the baby more time to develop and carry out repeat scans - this had confused several parents we talked to who had gone for repeat scans not knowing that the baby might have a problem. 'Yes, if that's okay with you,' kind of thing, like you do. I remained positive, we researched lots of cases of mistaken dates, inconclusive scans, and compared them to our situation; scrutinising everything to try and believe it was all one big misunderstanding. By this time, we were tired. There was an extra digit on one of the hands. You will be able to discuss this with your midwife or consultant. the amniocentesis) and the pregnancy had already ended, or because the scan was not routinely offered in their region 5 or more years ago. He suggested he perform an amniocentesis immediately, to rule out any chromosomal problems. And also what the prognosis would mean for our two year old: now a very happy child, he would have a completely different childhood with such an ill sibling. And it's, I can't remember exactly what it was now, it's about where the brain is supposed to form. I endured 12 hours of medication and in the early hours February 7, 56 days after my first scan (at nearly 18 weeks), I miscarried our babies. All the time, the baby was kicking and I felt like a murderer waiting to strike her victim. This scan takes place between 18 weeks and 20 weeks 6 days of pregnancy and is commonly called the 20-week scan. And the doctor - because it was a doctor rather then just the, a sonographer or whatever the correct term is - was scanning my wife, and she hovered over the heart of the baby and said, 'Oh there's the heart, we'll come back to that'. At first, I still had to deal with the physical implications of having given birth. I swallowed the tablet and we left the building. Sometimes a post mortem was needed to confirm the 20-week diagnosis to see if the baby had inherited a genetic problem (such as Fowler syndrome - see 'Resources'). My partner went out with him, wanting to see him. I took my vitamins, stuck to the healthy diet and put on a brave face. We left for home feeling completely numb. To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account. They said the brain was okay -, We were in there for a matter of minutes, literally -, In and out. Originally I hadn't wanted to go down that road. Unfortunately I was not met with a compassionate sonographer. By this point I had stopped bleeding, this caused problems. I know its hard- but i really wouldnt worry about it too much as the worry will stress you and your body out. And it was then because we were at 20 weeks by this point, there was only fairly short window to actually, to get some more tests done, find out what the problems were, and then make any decisions that might have to be made. If you think you may have a medical emergency, call your doctor, midwife or hospital immediately. However, at the time neither of us could articulate that. It was far too much power; neither of us wanted it. She advised I be referred to the EPU to be assessed. The ultimate betrayal. At that point, I got very not upset but quite sort of strongly severe sort of with the people at the hospital saying, 'Look, you know, that's 24 hours, possibly a 48 hours' wait - that's not something that's tenable. I was becoming numb to the whole process. The Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists (RCOG) have produced a report on Termination of Pregnancy for Fetal Abnormality in England, Scotland and Wales (May 2010). I was young, I didn't need one. The baby was kicking so hard that I began to believe him. And I can just remember flashing a look at you as if to say, 'Have I made a mistake here somewhere? . After half an hour of lying on the bed, I was starting to get nervous, but was excited to find out that the baby would be a boy and that I could see his little heart beating strongly. And the next day we went back to the hospital and we had another scan with a specialist, and he confirmed it was a condition called holoprosencephaly, which I'd never heard of any of these words before, they were just such long words. But they didn't. With my oldest it turns out she has a minor thing that affects 1 in 1000 of the population and wont harm her at all it's just "there" and with my second the issue turned out to be nothing. Laura miscarried her twin babies in February. Health professionals use the 18-20 week scan to examine the baby's size and position, and also to check if his/her brain, heart, lungs and other internal organs are developing as expected. Why me and not you, you bastard? So on the Monday we went in to see the senior sonographer, I think she was a consultant at the hospital. I had to be rescanned latter. Instead, we were shown to a room slightly away from the rest of the ward and the midwife stayed with us to talk through what was going to happen. Again, we weren't understood. There was cause for concern. Many described how sonographers and doctors were very restrained and didn't speak at all until they had analysed all the baby's details. And that was scanning up from the above the head, then you were coming up through the child's head, so you were seeing the chambers in the brain, sort of it was evident in all four chambers of the brain, then suddenly one chamber was empty. But my brain had been given a train of thought that was impossible to stop. These opinions do not represent the opinions of Tommys and are not advice from Tommy's. Everywhere you look, there are happy, fat, smug pregnant women. It's a bit at the back of the brain and - no I can't remember what it is - it's called, it's something that's called Dandy-Walker mal, The Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists (RCOG) have produced a report on Termination of Pregnancy for Fetal Abnormality in England, Scotland and Wales (May 2010). And so began the most bizarre day of my life. You get extra care and monitoring as appropriate and baby is proactively treated. As soon as we arrived, we were shown to this little room. It was positive, and I felt elated. It was just sort of deadpan faces, very serious looks, someone else coming to check. Last updated July 2017. I give pregnant women dirty looks. And still we asked to see a, Impact of the 20-week and later specialist scans. And I couldn't escape the feeling that I was being selfish. And at that point I don't think we, I don't think we realised that there might have to be a decision, because we'd talked about it with, with Down's and the other possible problems, but at this point it was, well okay what can be done to fix the problem - because yes the heart's not developing properly but there must be something we can do. Usually, sonographers will ask a senior sonographer colleague to confirm findings and this should be done immediately. Chances of bad news at 20 week scan mumsnet We bought little outfits, teddies, and researched all the vitamins and foods that I could eat. We've joined the grown-ups and we both feel very different. The only thing you're thinking now is the birth, and what if something goes wrong in the birth? So I no longer trusted my instincts. Scans cannot find all conditions. The results come in stages. Because we knew that that wasn't normal, that wasn't what we'd experienced before, it wasn't just the, 'There's the arm, there's the leg, oh look the baby's moving'. Fine, go on my own. I mean, you just, you're just overwhelmed, it's so much fun. This was on the Friday. Many parents were shocked by findings from the 20-week and later scans. b>Bad news at 20 week scan. 12/12/2012 22:41. Though the 18-20 week scan can detect when certain parts of the baby's body have grown abnormally, it may not be possible for clinicians to identify why it has happened or make a firm diagnosis based on the scan alone. Some hospitals do offer earlier anomaly scans of the baby, but they will not show as much detail as scans performed between 18 and 20weeks. It is as though our pain means we've earned the right to be taken more seriously. Health professionals use the 18-20 week scan to examine the baby's size and position, and also to check if his/her brain, heart, lungs and other internal organs are developing as expected. 18-20 week scans provide clinicians with more information than earlier scans because by18 weeks a healthy baby should be larger and better developed. I know it sounds odd that you want to hear that it's wrong, but you, you know it's wrong, and you, you want to be reassured either that it's okay or is there something seriously wrong. In order for the sonographer to get good images of your baby, the scan is carried out in a dimly lit room. I just want to be normal again. The following is a quote from their report: If the scan reveals either a suspected or confirmed abnormality, the woman should be informed by the sonographer at the time of the scan. chances of bad news at 20 week scan mumsnet. If one of the conditions is found or suspected, the sonographer may ask for a second opinion from another member of staff. For women who have been given distressing news about their baby during the scan, there should be a health professional available to provide immediate support. How common is it for 2nd baby to come early..? Enough for two weeks after he had been cremated. An hour passed and I started to panic. To view this licence, visit nationalarchives.gov.uk/doc/open-government-licence/version/3 or write to the Information Policy Team, The National Archives, Kew, London TW9 4DU, or email: psi@nationalarchives.gov.uk. Others, including those who had been given leaflets to read about the scan beforehand as well as some who were health professionals, said that they had been nave about the 20-week scan. I broke down and started hitting my disgusting body that had done this. We thought it would all be over very quickly but, in fact, it was another 11 hours before the baby was delivered. The thing that I have a very strong memory of is this child's face in amazing detail. And the local hospital wanted to send us off to the regional hospital to actually confirm that, and were not really prepared to say at that time that there was something very seriously wrong. Previous scans in this pregnancy and with my first child had been fun - a chance to see the baby wriggling around and perhaps find out its sex. Could you tell? The 18-20 week antenatal scan and further tests, Ending the pregnancy for family & personal reasons, Deciding whether to see, hold and name the baby, Photographs and other mementoes of the baby, Saying goodbye to the baby - services & funerals, Coping with bereavement - women's experiences, Coping with bereavement - men's experiences, Men's ideas about their role in ending a pregnancy. (See. Severe chromosomal conditions such as Edwards' syndrome are now often picked up in the first trimester antenatal screening but itwill usually be more obviousat the 18- 20 week scan, though usually a firm diagnosis will not be made until one or two specialists have weighed up all available evidence about the baby - which usually means that another expert needs to scan the baby again, or until the woman has had an amniocentesis. The scan will find about half (50%) of those babies who have heart defects. So he was about two weeks smaller than what he should have been. Those two weeks were agonising for us both. And my husband, we never got to sit next to each other in the consulting room, my husband was across the room from me, and I was sat next to the consultant, and we were laughing and joking with him about, you know, the home delivery, and everything was going to be, 'Are you still on for the home delivery?' Seeing your baby on a screen can be really exciting. It seemed inconceivable that we would not be having a baby in May. And then, so I went to my next scan, which was the 20-week abnormality scan, and we took our first child with us, I think he was 17 months old at the time. Our position in our families has shifted. From losing my dad to his battle with cancer, to then having to face another battle with cancer and my mum; thankfully she pulled though. Despite this new discovery, the sonographer was still concerned. Finally, Monday came and we went back to the hospital. But I was struggling mentally with the anguish, grief and endless hospital visits. I couldn't work out what was taking so long and put it down to the doctor being young and inexperienced. When I see a child with Down's syndrome, I have a tremendous need to explain myself and apologise a million times over. I've still had no cramps or bleeding so fingers crossed everything is ok I just couldn't believe I fell down the stairs, I can't remember the last time I ever did that! See you in -. The consultant showed us the letter with our result on and, yes, there were the words "Down's syndrome". And so we had to go out a couple of times, [wife] had to walk around, and she had a drink of water, which is supposed to sort of change things inside, or help the baby turn around or something because the sonographer couldn't get the measurements she wanted. Thanks girls, it's amazing how protected our babies are in there isn't it?! I popped out from work, telling my boss I'd be back in half an hour. She brought up a picture of the heart on the screen. The first midwife seemed to understand what we were trying to say, and said she would ask the doctor to come and talk to us. If you are not sure, you can contact them and ask. To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account. Another sick joke. I had an appointment with my consultant 2 days later, and again he said, you know, 'Very common - shouldn't worry about it too much, you know, if, the problem is if they find anything else wrong'. The contractions started very quickly and within an hour my waters had broken. My belly was growing and I was feeling great. Not a good sign in a hospital consulting room. And, so they sent me home at that stage because they said the specialist wasn't available till the following day, which was awful. And I am slowly coming to terms with what has happened. All my plans were beginning to fall down. hi ladies. Two days, after on Christmas Eve, (my 12 week date) I had more blood tests. 80 percent of my pregnancies have ended in death and I felt like they were telling me those babies didn't matter. It would have been nice to see someone straight away because I was in such shock. No, you couldn't see there was anything wrong. The scan will look in detail at your babys bones, heart, brain, spinal cord, face, kidneys and abdomen. Apologise for somehow doubting their right to be in this world. But it's bloody hard being miserable the whole time. It felt as if we had gone power crazy. But it is a soft marker for Edwards' syndrome. We understand the real meaning of "shit happens". After preparing myself to face having to take the medication. Maybe our son would have overcome his problems, survived his illnesses, led a happy life. I would be put to sleep, and when I woke up I wouldn't be pregnant any more. Thankfully I was met by an amazing sonographer, she was compassionate and understanding. Ending a pregnancy for fetal abnormality - The 18-20 week antenatal After she had taken all the measurements, the sonographer told us that she was concerned with the length of the baby's limbs in relation to the head. She didn't say at the time that it was a major problem or that it was something to watch out for. I felt crushed, I wanted him to at least acknowledge what had been found already. It doesn't remove the guilt, but I don't know what else to do. It seemed a very arbitrary system, and so you quite often sat outside in the waiting room for a couple of hours before you actually got to see the consultant, which was, seemed you know, I kind of remember thinking before we went in to see him on the particular day when we found out there was a problem, 'Why are we sitting here? And nothing prepares you at all. And then all of a sudden, I was still laughing and we were all very upbeat, and then suddenly, he suddenly said, but I was still, still laughing, and he said to me, 'Oh, there might be a problem, there might be a problem with the, I think this baby has hydrocephalus'. My wife turned the screen away from her. The chances that anything bad will be discovered are v v small. The thing about that which I felt was difficult is that we could tell when being scanned that there was something very seriously wrong. The hardest thing I have ever done | Health | The Guardian I didn't really know what that was. It felt so wrong. And it all seemed so near at hand, you know, 31, 30 weeks, you feel like you're nearly, you're on the home stretch. I tried not to sit still for too long, because then I became too aware of the little thing inside me. Intellectually, I knew this was not the case. 17/12/2020 17:13. As you felt that, you know, it was probably going to show lots of problems and it just wasn't what we wanted, but at the same time we needed to sort of see it and, we needed to prove it I suppose. We strongly advise readers not to take drugs that are not prescribed by your qualified healthcare provider. I was then told yet again bad news. We talked about the different sorts of pain relief I could have and I opted for a morphine drip, which I could control. You've had your, you know, you've had your triple test and everything was fine. Has anyone been told the sex incorrectly at their 20 week scan? News stories, speeches, letters and notices, Reports, analysis and official statistics, Data, Freedom of Information releases and corporate reports. And before they gave me any of the results she asked a colleague to come and told me she wanted to check something, with a colleague, and by then I was getting very concerned because I'd never had that happen before. So at 20 weeks I went for my scan with my husband, with my daughter, to get our photographs. I think I don't everything just seems a real blur because it was, it was such a strange experience. No sort of questions about, 'Do you want to know whether it's a boy or a girl?' All pregnant women should be given the booklet by their midwife or GP Screening tests for you and your baby by Public Health England, which gives detailed information about the types of scan offered and what they are looking for. I tried to show him the notes and the photos. And that was a terrible moment to be sort of hanging on, waiting. So that just left the talipes. My mum arrived early to look after our son, and my partner and I got a cab to the hospital. Soon, the doctor came and inserted the tablets that would induce labour. He felt strong and fit and healthy. In some cases concerns in utero fix themselves sometimes needs treatment. The people who did know what was going on seemed far too sure that we were doing the right thing, that there was really no choice to be made. The consultant at the time wasn't really that interested in that imagery. My partner's face was lit up, seeing the baby for the first time. The anomaly scan, also called the 20 week scan or mid-pregnancy scan, is used to detect pregnancy irregularities significant in diagnosis of any of the following conditions: In most instances no serious issue will be found during the scan and many parents-to be will come away knowing that all is progressing nicely and, perhaps, having found out . It sounds crazy, but I just knew. Public Health England (PHE) created this information on behalf of the NHS. We just couldn't use the words. What would we like to do with the body? Though the 18-20 week scan can detect when certain parts of the baby's body have grown abnormally, it may not be possible for clinicians to identify why it has happened or make a firm diagnosis based on the scan alone. But worse was to come. He started to scan me with a cold expression, then told me, 'it didn't look good' and that 'my womb looked raggedy'. And it was Christmas Eve and at the time I didn't think, the sonographer did spend a little bit of time scanning us and queried my dates several times and then explained that she couldn't quite see the baby's heart properly and would we come back in a couple of days? As I waited for the doctor back on the EPU unit. So when that happened to us I really didn't worry, I thought, you know, it was literally the baby was in awkward position, they couldn't see the heart and that was why. My partner watched the baby come out, and for a split second I saw a look of joy on his face. Sam reassured me, but the guilt had hit me along with the feeling that our world was falling apart. We went in, had a scan, I can't remember the exact sequence of events because the baby was still in the wrong position. I did. The 18 -20 week fetal anomaly scan is a watershed in most pregnancies because for the majority of women it will be the last time they are scanned before giving birth. So we hid in our house. The doctor told me he was 98% sure this was a failing twin pregnancy. However, a few hours later there was another shift change. I couldn't really believe what they were saying. Except for the persistent, nagging doubts. Sometimes it is difficult to get good views of a baby. I've been incredibly lucky to have such amazing support from Sam, my mum, and close friends and family. The doctor gave her consent, and I took the four little tablets. I felt the dread run through me. I think they perhaps could have done, if they had looked a bit closely. You have rejected additional cookies. This publication is licensed under the terms of the Open Government Licence v3.0 except where otherwise stated. Some people we talked to had not had a 18-20-week scan, either because their babies' abnormalities had been detected by earlier . I mean the lady who was scanning was very quiet for a long time. I guess the morphine made it easier. And it turned out the baby's heart wasn't forming properly, the chambers weren't forming properly. Just wonder whether anyone had ever been told? It would be a personal tragedy for my partner and me, but that is all. . I didn't sleep that night I don't think. The sonographer will be able to tell you the results of the scan at the time. We use some essential cookies to make this website work. I have horrible thoughts. To help us improve GOV.UK, wed like to know more about your visit today. I managed to tell my mum, who said she would come with us to the hospital. It was exactly like the labour I had with my first child. The same sense of expectation. And it was just a bit of a shock because it's not really what you want to hear - you don't really expect that. We went, I went in to the scanning room and they're quite bland facially anyway, whether everything's fine or not they just look at the screen to start off with and do measurements but I very quickly realised that the woman's demeanour wasn't, even for a bland face, was concerning. While some parents understood the clinician's restraint - even when they had to wait an hour or more for a definite diagnosis - others disliked being kept in suspense and wanted to be told what the clinician was thinking. I thought surely everything is ok, as they couldn't detect twins the week before. The same unique expression he had when he saw our two year old born. It was over. But the closeness has remained after the drama has died down. Rather sharply, my partner tried to explain. It is essential that all practitioners performing fetal anomaly ultrasound screening should be trained to communicate abnormal findings to women, as such information is likely to have significant emotional impact.

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